What if the disruptions in your life were not problems to be solved but a deeper inner calling of your Self?

In this interview with Jungian depth psychologist, Rose Yenko, I ask about the role of calls and the milestones we all take in life’s journey but ended up getting understanding and wisdom on the journey of life.

We talked about:

The role of calling in one’s life.

The important work of the first half of life .

What helps us find identity and a sense of home?

What helps us answer the question, “What should I do with my life?” How do I find my calling?

What if I fail?

What is the opposite of the spirit of adventure?

The different task in the second half of life.

What is our true gift to the world?

If you’ve felt lost, stuck, or that life has caused a major change in your life, the ideas and compassionate wisdom behind the words might be for you.

The transcript — edited for reading — follows:

On the role of calling in one’s life

Jake de Guzman: 

What is the role of calling and inner desire in people when they start to look at what they should do with their lives?

Rose Yenko: 

Oh, okay. That’s a nice question. Jung says the first half of life really has to be — not has to be —but focuses on living in the external world.

Because the ego with its social narrative and adaptation to family, to community, and to the world, will seek its mark in the world, because that is the beckoning of the world, right? To be successful. However, Jung says in the second half of life it no longer serves you. So who you are no longer brings you joy, happiness, satisfaction. It doesn’t move you anymore. This is like when you ask, “Is this all there is to life? What is the meaning of life?” You’re hit with the questions. Is this all there is to life? What is the meaning of life? Is this really my purpose?” 

The other one is, “I’m not fit to what I’m doing right now. I tried very much to be, again, the cliche: engineer, doctor, teacher, lawyer, businessman, executive, going up the ladder. But it’s not a fit.”

So that’s what we call… there can be a wounding. And the wounding can be depression. There is a mental psychopathology that occurs, and that’s why one goes into the dark night of the soul, because the path that one is in does not serve you anymore,  Or else the wounding can be realizing that you made a big mistake in selling out. 

What do you mean by selling out? You got allured. Is that the right word? There is allure, the allure of the glitter —nice benefits, big job.  All the works, et cetera.  And then you find out that, ooh, no.

Jake de Guzman:
Let’s let’s go back to you were saying the pressures of the external environment that need to be successful. What society says, what family says, or even you were saying the allure.

The allure of, as Ignatius says, richest, honour pride. Can you talk about that?

Rose Yenko: 

Which has its value. I’m not putting that down. Silver and gold has its value. Let’s not put that down.

Jake de Guzman: 

So how does that play into someone figuring out what they want to do with their lives? And how does that play? Is it important?

Rose Yenko: 

Okay. I guess the calling or the daemon? Sometimes we call it the daemon, the Genius waves it’s flag very early on. And one can already enter into one’s calling because it is so very palpable. There’s no mistaking the grip of the calling.

The work in the first half of life is accommodation and finding identity and your place in the world 

But sometimes the layer of the accommodation has worked itself into one’s psyche. Because our early stages of life really is the accommodation phase. And that has its purpose. Definitely. Because the accommodation phase gives us our sense of rooting, of grounding, of anchoring, of identity of family, of community, of belonging. To a physical space, a political space, a cultural space that helps us define who are we.

Jake de Guzman:
If they don’t navigate this space successfully, what happens to people?

Rose Yenko: 

That’s why people have a sense of abandonment. Oh, especially if the parents or parental figures have not affirmed them. So in a way, they are not rooted. 

Okay so it’s important — I cannot emphasize the importance of the accommodation phase. You cannot skip that. That’s very important. That is the container of your ego. From which the ego will work in the world. 

Accommodation is really where the ego finds its place in the world. And that, that is first 20 years of one’s life. 

And all the all the teachings, all the insights, all of the values that one has by osmosis from family… All the programming, if you will. Because that is your first experience of home. So the ego has a home that it experiences.  

What helps create identity and a sense of home?

Jake de Guzman:
What are the helps for someone at this stage now, forming their ego, trying to create a sense of home. What helps them? What are the helps? 

Rose Yenko: 

What comes to mind is being seen. Your parents see you, your friends see you, your siblings see you. You’re not a recipient of hand me downs. You’re not a trophy child.

Jake de Guzman: 

To be seen and heard. It’s so beautiful and it’s so powerful. 

Rose Yenko: 

One of the struggles of adolescents that they’re not seen, they’re not heard, they’re not listened to. Yeah. So their own voice is there.
 

Guides for answering “What should I do with my life?”

Jake de Guzman: 

How would you give advice to someone who asks, “What should I do with my life?” Young adults trying to find their way in the world, but unsure — society says this, I’m not sure of my own desires or my own passions.

Rose Yenko: 

Two things I can think of. One is that you have a mentor. A mentor can be a good teacher, a good sports coach. A good, a good literature guide. A mentor — a wise old lola (grand mother) or wise old lolo (grandfather).

And the second is for me, travel by books and travel the world. 

Jake de Guzman: 

Why a wise old mentor. Why a grandparent?

Rose Yenko: 

Because they can share with you. These are not the do’s and don’ts okay. This is more the storytelling sharing of one’s experience and what one’s wisdom. Hindi yung nagtuturo ng finger (not the finer wagging).

Jake de Guzman: 

Yes, not the “should’s” — the “you should do this, you should do that.”

Why travel by books and travel the world?

Rose Yenko: 

Oh, because, oh my God. Remember as I said, accommodation is a phase where you are, you have a boundary or a limitation given your space, time and circumstances. There’s a certain, fixity — is that it? There’s some fineness to it. That includes the cultural norms. The cultural scripts, et cetera. But when you read, oh my gosh, you know, your consciousness just expands. And then you discover other worlds. 

And this is the first phase of the Hero’s Journey. It could be the first phase of the Hero’s Journey. The wandering and the meandering. And it need not be a wandering of the body, but a wandering of the mind. Wandering can be many things. But it can be a wandering of the mind — that’s books.

Jake de Guzman:

And then as in the Hero’s Journey the person wanders, questions, tries to build their own ego, and then normally there is an inciting incident, there are calls to adventure. How does the happen? 

Rose Yenko:

And adventure sometimes can be in the mind. One of the first response to calling is to imagine.  So there are imaginings that can be stirred by reading. Because as I said, it brings you to worlds, to places, to characters, to other people’s heads.

Jake de Guzman:

And is there a resonance they find? “Yes. Ah, this fits me somehow.”

Rose Yenko: 

“I can relate. I can relate.” Or “I get what he’s saying. I can relate. I’m not weird pala (after all).” There’s somebody like me who is able to articulate what’s happening inside me.

What happens when a calling doesn’t fit with one’s present identity

Jake de Guzman: 

In your experience, does it normally happen when they do not fit the way they imagine themselves or start to awaken to what excites them, what inspires them, who they can be, and it doesn’t fit with the container…

Rose Yenko: 

The present container.

Jake de Guzman: 

The present container that they’ve created, what happens?

Rose Yenko: 

There can be a restlessness of spirit. There’s a restlessness of spirit and then you get scared. Then you get scared because, “I should not be like this. Why am I thinking like this? I’m not being a good girl or I’m not being a good person.”

And so that opening can also be scary. It’s not necessarily exciting. It can be scary because it’s unfamiliar because you may not have questioned it as deeply. This may be a first. That one has gone into that kind of reflection and restlessness. “Why is it like this? Why am I being like this?” 

And this is where the depth perspective is, because sometimes this is also where the shadow. You encounter your shadow. You’ve been sitting on your shadow for so long because it doesn’t fit the norms of  being a correct and proper lady,

So it can be jarring.  Because the adventure may not necessarily be, in the mind, but it can also be in the soul. Also, the one that you were saying like doesn’t fit, that’s also as part of the soul. But what I’m saying is when you say,  “This is not who I am. Why am I being like this? This is not who I am.” And you don’t like it. 

How do I follow my calling and create my space in the world

Jake de Guzman: 

For some young adults, that inner calling starts early. Yes. There’s really a sense of this is what I’m supposed to do. But since the young adults there’s figuring out how do I do this in the world and, but it’s how would you describe that? 

Rose Yenko: 

Because again, as I said, it’s not simple because you have to design. So you have to create a life that that you can work with.  Because there’s an ideal life —I have a calling. I respond to it. So it’s idealize that, this is what I should do…. But you have limited financial resources and there are no access to schools that will develop your calling. You have friends who don’t get you. 

So what I’m saying is it’s really an individual, that’s why it becomes an individual journey. Because you have to work with what you have. Not that everybody’s given the same access. 

Jake de Guzman: 

Fr. Benny Calpotura, he used to say, “Life is like poker. You can’t live life complaining that you had these cards and you wish you had somebody else’s cards. Living life is playing the hand you’re dealt.” 

Rose Yenko: 

Yes. And that’s where the if you are a creative, if your creative life is your calling.  How do you navigate your reality with the calling of your creative life?

So that’s why people have their own stories and fascinating stories of how they nurture,  tended the creative life.

What if I fail? How am I sure?

Jake de Guzman:

I’ve often talked to young people who are scared to fail. Their questions are, “What if I fail? How am I sure? How am I sure this is my path? What if I fail?” 

Rose Yenko: 

That’s why, for me, that phase of adventure is very important. So as a parent, you have to allow your children, a space to adventure. That’s the one. Because you can easily go for easy answers, fast answers, quick answers. But … get bitten in your ass. Excuse the French. I mean, if you go for the fast and easy answers… 

Yes, get the job. That’s important. But, but you also allow yourself a space, or a mindset.

The opposite of the mindset of adventure

Jake de Guzman: 

What’s the opposite of adventure?

Rose Yenko:

To control.

To hem. To hem it. And then the energy will implode and then you go into depression because you’re holding it in. 

The qualities of adventure

Jake de Guzman: 

What are the qualities of adventure, the mental or spiritual qualities, attitudes…?

Rose Yenko: 

Curiosity. Curiosity is very important. And then a sense of listening inside — an intuition. An intuition, a listening inside — which in fact can also be honed. 

Part of curiosity is the willingness to take risks. Not fool hardy risk. Okay. I think that’s what I’m saying.

Jake de Guzman: 

Parang (it’s like) the ability or willingness to enter uncertainty, even mystery.

Rose Yenko: 

I like that. Yes, I like that. I like those words. Yes. I’m with you.

In the second half of life, the task is different

Rose Yenko: 

And the second half of life before we end anyway we have time. It may not necessarily,… the term may not be adventure. The term may be descent.  To descend into the soul, to descend into the darkness, to descend into the challenges, descend into the difficulties, difficult questions. 

The descent. It may not anymore be the adventure of youth, you might say, of the changes of life, ibang (that’s a different) quality. But second half of life it’s to be able to descend and also face, face one’s life. “Is this the story that I still want to continue?” Iba yan (that’s different).

Jake de Guzman:

When I did the “Exploring the Self.” I remember Sophie said, “Calls happens in the second half of life, not in the first.” And that’s mysterious to me. Can you unpack that for me a little? What does that mean? 

Rose Yenko: 

There’s still ingredients, as I said there said, ingredients in the first half of life — that, of the world and engaging with the world. But the second half of life is engaging with yourself. What serves me. Because the first half of life, yes, you have served yourself also. But you have served the world. You’ve served your family, you’ve served your partner, you’ve served your children, you serve your parents and all of that. You’ve served your community. But in the second half of Iife, “What serves me? What kind of a human being am I?” That, that’s for me, that’s the bigger question. 

This is really where you face yourself, face your shadow, face your anima, face your animus and those other parts of you that maybe, hey, you have to consider.  Parang (it’s like, for example) stop living through your partner, stop leaving your feelings to your partner. Or stop thinking your thoughts to your partner. Yeah. Start claiming it for yourself. That’s part of the deeper questions.

 So it’s really you as a human being. Yeah. It’s not so much the doing but what kind of a person are you? That’s why it’s deeper.

Our gift to the world

Jake de Guzman: 

I did this meditation and the guidance was, “You don’t have to try. Parang (it’s like) your energy will present itself in the world just because you are you by being you. You don’t even have to try with the world. You don’t have to explain yourself. You don’t have to justify yourself.”

Rose Yenko: 

Ultimately who you are, what gives you, what makes you, what gives you joy? That is your contribution to the world. Like in the Hero’s Journey: the gift of self, that is the boon, that is the gift you give to the world. You.